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  • My struggle with my medical separation from the service.

    I started my process in the end of April 2012, I was given a P3 profile and recommended to the MMRB (MOS/Medical Retention Board). I began the process with a briefing where I was told I was starting a new process called IDES (Integrated Disability Evaluation  System), and I would stay with my unit until a decision was made. I met with a doctor locally and then I was scheduled to go to Ft Bragg where I proceeded to go through two weeks of medical screenings (the were VERY thorough). The army side of things went very smooth and they were under there projected times almost by half. THEN my claim went over to the VA……… where it sat from late May until Late October. Now its on to the PEB (Physical Evaluation Board) which im hoping that I will receive my paperwork back soon. I do know that the VA is offering me 80% and I am ready to go home and be with my family. The hardest part of this whole process is the being away from my family. So lets hope that my process will be complete and I will be home before Christmas!!!

  • Safe Room in’s and out’s

    External systems are your first warning

    It often appalls us the extreme nature of much of the advice that many so-called “experts” give about personal safety. We were once on a forum specifically for instructors of Women’s Self-Defense (after you see this you’ll know why we left). Someone asked a question that was so outrageous that our jaws dropped in amazement. She was afraid of being attacked in the shower, so her question was: How could she carry a gun while showering?

    As stunned as we were by this question, it was nothing in comparison to the shock we experienced when instructors — who, incidentally, prided themselves on their shooting training — started answering her! Instead of telling this woman to seek therapy, they came up with ideas about plastic bags and highly placed shower pegs.

    The question was paranoid enough, but the magnitude the stupidity, absurdity and extremism of the answers was  astounding. What is going on in your life that you can reasonably expect to be attacked in the shower? And yet these people thought it was perfectly normal to carry a gun in the shower “in case, you were attacked.”

    This went on for a few days with the arguments getting more and more absurd, until finally Marc erupted. His contention was that carrying a gun in shower is a ludicrous and paranoid idea. The solution wasn’t going to be found in gun or self-defense, the answer to the problem was in home security.

    Afraid of getting attacked in the shower? Try locking your doors and windowsbefore you get into the shower. That way, you can hear him breaking in.

    Immediately he was barraged with a slew of “Well what if you don’t hear him break in?”

    Shocked that he even had to answer, he responded with “Buy an alarm system”

    Again the challenging questions came. “What if you can’t afford an alarm service?”  Around this time we began to wonder what planet these people were from(1). Okay, so what if you can’t afford a hi-tech service? There are cheap alternatives. For example: Get door and window squealers (little devices that sound an alarm when moved). If you are in a situation where someone is after you, then paying the $20 to equip all your doors and windows is well worth it. They aren’t expensive and they aren’t hard to find, we’ve even seen them in the check out line in Wal-mart.

    But again these so-called “self-defense experts” argued for helplessness and blindness. Locking doors? Alarm systems? Door and window squealers? That would be too much trouble. The whole idea of home security as a warning system was foreign to these people, because they were so lost in fantasy. To them carrying a gun in the shower seemed like a good idea. We can just imagine them saying to themselves “Wowie kazowie, why hadn’t I ever thought of that?”

    Do anything you can that will give you warning and time to get to the safe room. You don’t need to carry a gun in the shower  You can run  wet, naked and soapy to the safe room just as well as you can dry and clothed. The trick, in both cases, is early warning. Time that you can use to get to safety. Many means to create an effective home security system and the pyramid of personal safety are available elsewhere on this site. You don’t have to go so far as to try to figure out how to keep a gun in the shower.

    An outside door inside
    There is a difference between inside doors and outside doors. In older, wooden doors the difference is between hollow core and solid core. Primarily for insulation purposes, a solid core door is one solid piece. This also serves as a security measure, as it is difficult to break through three inches of solid wood. Hollow core doors are for use inside. Hollow core doors are far lighter than solid core and they are less effective for both insulation and security. The reason they are lighter is because they are designed like corrugated  cardboard (like you see with larger cardboard boxes). In between the two flat surfaces there are thin struts holding them apart.

    Hollow core doors are designed to provide privacy, sound buffering and climate control inside your home — not security. The problem with hollow core doors is that they can be kicked or punched through. Worse yet, they are easily shot through and quickly fold to either body checks or blows from a heavy object. As such they are not appropriate for a safe room door. If you are in a home with older style doors, the safe room should have a solid core door.

    Most modern houses however come with decorative and molded doors. But again there is still a difference between an inside and outside door. The nice thing about this modern selection is that the same type of door comes in different thickness. To have consistency in the look of the house, the same type of door can come in both indoor and outdoor models. To start your safe room, you simply take an outside door and put it inside. That doesn’t mess up your decor either.

    Reinforced doorframe
    Any lock is only as good as what is around it. Most door locks can be simply by-passed by applying enough force until the frame breaks. Therefore, for your safe room you are not only going to put in a heavier door, but also reinforce the doorframe.

    Doing this in older homes is described on the home security page in the door section. It takes some work, but if you do while re-painting the bedroom, you’ll never notice the embedded security measures.

    With more modern homes, the doorframe is usually sold along with the door. So when you upgrade to an outside door, you are also upgrading the door frame. Although you might want to consult with the salesman about also upgrading the frame to something bigger and stronger.

    Without going into metal security doors, the general standard you are shooting for is something that can withstand the full force of a 180 pound man repeatedly slamming himself into the door. That’s a lot of force and the salesman should be able to tell you how much force the doorframe is rated for.

    We’re going to change tracks here. When it comes to personal safety, Hollywood is our greatest enemy. Not only do they promote the concept of unstoppable bad guys, but they credit them with super-genius. The evil stalker knows how to cut the phone lines and isolate the terrified woman. How in the blue blazes do you cut the “lines” of a cell phone? Cut the power so the alarm system doesn’t work? How does he know to do it exactly when you are in the shower so you don’t know your alarm system is down? Much less the fact that you might just notice the lights going out … even if you are in the shower. As such, you have warning that something is wrong. And yet, these fools were working themselves up into a frenzy because all these things “could” happen. And that is why you need to carry a gun in the shower.

    When we mention safe rooms, most people’s minds flash to all the movies where a damsel in distress desperately tries to close the door against an evil attacker who is body checking it from the other side. Not to put too fine of a point on it, but that’s called “Drama.” That scenario is far more dramatic and vivid than heading towards the safe room while the attacker is trying to get in. You don’t wait until he is in the front room, you run when he is crawling through the window. That is what early warning systems are for! So you can get the door closed and locked before you end up in a shoving match over closing the door.


    Multiple locks
    First off you are going to be replacing indoor door knobs with heavier outdoor locking knobs. A one-sided deadbolt is also not unreasonable. After the doorknob lock is engaged you throw the deadbolt. Multiple locks distribute the impact over a greater area thereby reducing the chance of frame failure. They also share the load between locks thereby lessening the chance of lock failure.

    Speaking of lock failure, we are not big fans of “different distance” locks. By this we mean secondary measures like chains or the flip style of locks that you find in hotel rooms. These supposedly allow you to open the door and peer out in safety. Unfortunately these locks consistently prove themselves ineffective against full body assaults; they tear out of the doorframe too easily.

    The same physics make them unreliable for secondary lines of security. Any number of people will put these on after locking the door thinking they are added security. They aren’t. The truth is, if your primary locks fail, these will not stop the door from being opened. All it is going to take is another body check.

    Therefore, any additional locks that you put on the door must further secure the door into the doorframe. Deadbolts are good, so two are floor bars and foot locks. What you want with safe room locks is once they are thrown, if you don’t have keys that door isn’t going to budge. Anyone on the outside trying to get in is going to have to take the doorframe out of the wall.

    If you have kids in the house (or are currently being stalked) you might want to consider putting in a keypad lock. While they are not particularly attractive, they can be set so they automatically lock when the door is closed. If, on the rare chance, you find yourself in a race to the safe room all you have to do is slam the door. This is especially important for kids who might not remember to close and then lock the door. The keypad makes it a second’s work for you to get in without a key. (This is also why we recommend them for the front door too…especially if your kids are always forgetting a) to lock the door and b) their keys). From the inside the door opens as easily as a regular knob so there is no hindrance getting out in case of fire or other nighttime crisis. A keypad lock is also useful for avoiding embarrassing explanations to your kids why the door was locked when you and your SIG want privacy. It was locked because the door was closed…next question?

    If you are really determined that nobody is going to batter their way into your safe room there is the old style Fox Police Locks. In essence these are a steel bar  contraption that you barricade the door with. One end goes into the floor and the other end into the door. The bar sits at an angle and serves as a brace. The nice thing about this kind of system is that when not in use, the bar sits unobtrusively behind the door. The only thing you see is the groove in the floor and the slot on the door. Or there is the ugly side-to-side version that literally bars the door. In either case, nothing short of a police battering ram is going to come through that door.

    Shatterproof glass
    Going back to the movie Panic Room, Jodie Foster had an entirely enclosed, video monitored, high tech control room for her safe room. Well, unless you are a rich paranoid or you just won the lottery, it really isn’t necessary to go that far. However, since — for a variety of reasons — the bedroom is the most common choice for a safe room, you’re going to have to address the issue of windows in your safe room.

    Instead of upgrading and reinforcing existing windows, you can buy complete security windows. These come with shatterproof glass and are a bear to break in through. While it would be ideal to replace all the windows in your home with such a system, realistically the only windows you really have to replace are in your safe room.

    While it might not seem easier to replace an entire window, the fact is that what you will get by doing so is more complete protection than if you try to piecemeal a solution onto your current windows. If you do not want to go the expense of replacing the windows, then the window security information on the home security page should be followed. However, whatever else you do or don’t do, at the very least, we strongly suggest that you put shatterproof laminate on the windows. While security glass is better, this transparent sheeting prevents the window from being easily shattered. As such, he cannot reach through and open the locks.

    Heavy curtains
    It is important to keep an attacker from being able to see into your safe room. After his attempts to get through the door has failed, odds are he is going to go after the window. While for some unexplained reason there is a tendency not to shoot through doors and walls, the same doesn’t apply to windows — especially if he can see you. That is why heavy curtains or blinds are necessary. They not only cut his view off of you, but you of him.

    Let’s take this to the worst case scenario. The odds are against him hitting you while firing blindly through the window — especially if you are either hunkered down or laying in a corner of the wall that the window is in (2). It may sound strange to position yourself against the wall closest to the shooter, but figure that the bullets are going to be traveling down ever- widening angle lines from the shooter’s position. It is easy for him standing in one spot outside the window to spray bullets into the far wall from one corner to the other. That’s why you don’t want to be against it or hiding in a closet opposite the window.

    However, in order to hit you when you are against the window wall he would have to run the entire length of the room firing blindly through the walls or stand back with an assault rifle and hose your home with banana clips worth of bullets — neither are particularly likely.

    The heavy curtains blind him so he doesn’t know where you are in the room. Nor does he know if you are now armed and capable of firing back. While he may not know where you are in the room, you know where he is…just outside the window. And unlike you, he’s backlit. In another case, if he does manage to break through the window, while he’s trying to get past the curtains to look around and find you, you’re swinging a baseball bat…if he’s lucky. If not, what you’re swinging is much worse.

    Those are the worst case scenarios. More realistically — especially when dealing with stalkers — they’ve juiced themselves up on liquid courage. Climbing through rose bushes or up to the second story windows or standing on a roof pitch/in a rose bush while trying to swing hard enough to get through shatterproof glass while drunk often becomes a self-solving problems. Alcohol and gravity are a bad combo, so are thorn bushes and booze. But in either case he won’t see you call the cops…or the ambulance.

    There is a final factor as to why heavy drapes or blinds are important. It is a terrifying experience to be assaulted…especially in your own home. By cutting off direct visual contact with him, it is easier for you to remain calm and function. Yes you will hear screaming, yelling, pounding and crashes as he beats on the doors and windows, but you won’t be looking him in the eye. For reasons beyond the scope of this Web page this significantly increases your ability to function. The safe room has bought you time to call the police, activate security systems and — if that is your choice — arm yourself. When and if he gets in, then you will be prepared.

    The most important piece of equipment for your safe room is the phone. It is what allows you to communicate with the outside world. It’s what allows you to not only call the cavalry, but to communicate with them and direct them when they arrive.

    Again Hollywood has filled people’s minds with lurid images of juggernaut murderers who cut the phone lines before chasing scantily clad women down the hallways of their own homes. The truth is most of these clowns wouldn’t know where to begin to look in order to cut the phone line. If they even had the brains to remember to do so. And quite frankly in these days of cell phones, roam phones, DSL lines, dish networks, etc, cutting a phone line doesn’t do all that much. You just pick up the cell or internet phone.

    Basically, most home invasions rely on their speed and ferocity to overwhelm you before you can make a call. Their problem with you in a safe room is that they can’t keep you from calling out.

    When you get 911 stay on the line!

    Not only will you be reassured by talking to the operator, but you will be able to tell the police where he is. It also creates a recording of the incident and what is happening. This will be used in court. Staying on line is especially true if you have some kind of home defense weapon. Inform the operator that you are in your safe room and armed. Police HATE coming onto a property with an armed owner and an intruder, not only because of their chances of getting shot, but shooting you. The constant two way communication of where you each are through the 911 operator is going to go miles to keep lethal mistakes from happening. If they know you’re safely locked in the bedroom than the guy who is popping up with a gun isn’t friendly

    Safe/Gun safe
    We recommend that you have a safe — for a variety of reasons.

    First, if you have children the gun needs to go into either the home safe or a specially designed gun safe. Really, let’s be truthful, how often do your children listen when you tell them to do their chores? Do you really think they aren’t going to play with the gun even if you tell them not to touch it? Putting it in a safe, keeps that from happening when you are not home.

    As the better modern safes have keypads, so too do the better gun safes. Gun safes come in all sizes, but the ones we recommend for home defense hold a single pistol, attach to the wall, have either glow in the dark buttons or are electronically lit (with battery back up) and can be quickly opened. A loaded pistol is in your hands in seconds, but not in your children’s. Even better, you can get these safes with a “three strikes you’re out” system. After three wrong codes are punched in, the system shuts down. This keeps kids from spending hours randomly punching in codes.

    Second, remember we’re talking safe room here. By definition you’ve bought time. So the need for instant access to blazin’ guns is non-existent. If because of kids and the potential need to come out of the safe room, then that wall mounted unit is the best way to keep your kids safe and give you quick access. Other than that, keeping it in the safe in the closet is nice way to soothe any concerns about having a loaded gun in the house.

    Third, it’s a good idea to have a safe bolted to your closet floor anyway. In the old days, burglars just grabbed jewelry, TVs and VCRS, now your biggest concern isn’t the burglary, it’s identity theft. If a criminal gets a hold of your important papers you’re in deep trouble. The problem is you don’t know where it will stop. The burglar who steals your papers probably won’t use them, but he will sell them to someone who will. A passport sells on the street for upwards to a $1000. Old driver licenses and credit card statements give an ID thief everything he needs. Boxes of blank checks? There’s an invite to not only having your account cleaned out, but lots of bad checks passed with your name on the checks. There’s even been cases of houses trying to be sold when the deed has been stolen. Keep your important paper work and your gun in a safe in the safe room.

    The safe room and the safe give you an additional option for security, and that’s when you are on vacation or at work. Now you have layers upon layers that a criminal must get through before he can ruin your life — especially if you have a keypad on your safe room/bedroom door and you get in the habit of closing it when you leave.

    Monitors/alarm system/cameras
    As we mentioned on the stalkers solutions page advances in security technology have driven prices down to a rock bottom. We have seen a four camera, split screen video surveillance and recording system for as low as $150 dollars… at a SAMS Club (That’s a Wal-mart on steroids). Such a unit can easily be patched into the TV in your bedroom to give you an exact idea where the intruder is and what he is doing. And if you are watching him on the TV, you can bet that you are not only recording it, but you are talking to the 911 operator about his exact location. And that’s being passed onto the officers. How cool is that? You’re both watching and involved in dispatching a real life cop show…from your safe/bedroom.

    All you need now is popcorn.

    Besides the cops really appreciate the information that you can pass onto them, like what he’s wearing, what he looks like, if he has friends and if he is armed. This last one is important because home invasion types tend to be armed. Which is why having a safe room should be making more and more sense.

    In addition, most alarm companies make their bread and butter selling you not the system (which is cheap) but their service (which is not). If you have a safe room and a phone you don’t need them to dial the police for you. As such an alarm system can be rigged for internal warning (Remember early warning?). Where alarm systems that contact outsiders pay for themselves, however, is if you travel often and/or have a lot of valuable items that you could be burglarized for while at work.

    On the other hand, it can be argued — whether you have an alarm service or not — that rooms with lots of expensive equipment should be turning into safe rooms as well. If you have  more than $10,000 dollars worth of equipment, collections or financial investments, spend an extra $500 to $1000 to protect it.

  • Interrogation / Interview Tactics

    Explain the reason for the interview before you begin. Work onbuilding a rapport with the person being interviewed. You want the person to like you, so you must give him a reason to confide in you. Also, take steps to make the person feel comfortable. Interviewees are more likely to volunteer information when they do not feel frightened or intimidated.

    Refrain from using unethical means to get a confession. Do not make threats or promises, or use coercive actions to obtain confessions. In order not to appear confrontational, seating should be arranged so that the interviewer and interviewee are sitting at the 10 and 2 o’clock positions, rather than face to face.

    Ask open-ended questions. Open-ended questions are not always phrased like questions, but rather as statements that require a response. Instead of leading a suspect or witness, an open-ended question is intended to encourage answers based on what the person knows. The objective is to get witnesses or suspects to volunteer information. If you do phrase a question, begin with a word such as “what.”

    Listen to what is being said and clarify any inconsistencies. Even the most trivial information could be important. Make eye contact throughout the interview to establish credibility. Videotape the interview to maintain the integrity of the investigation. Take notes while interviewing the witness or suspect, or have another interviewer in an adjacent room take notes.

    Avoid embarrassing the person being interviewed. Be patient and supportive throughout the interview. Do not interrupt the person being interviewed when he is speaking. Let him tell his story. Ask only one question at a time and wait for each answer.

    Employ suggestive techniques to help a witness recall information from memory. Sometimes memory can be jogged with clues about the personal characteristics or clothing a suspect was wearing.

    Use accusatory questioning to help determine whether a person is telling the truth or lying. An innocent person tends to be direct with answers; someone who is lying might be evasive. Innocent people usually feel confident that an investigation will clear them; a guilty suspect may try to divert the interviewer from the actual questions being asked.



  • The Kel-Tec RFB


    RFB stands for Rifle, Forward-ejecting Bullpup. Why forward-ejecting? Because it allows the RFB to be the first truly ambidextrous 7.62 NATO Bullpup ever developed. The patented, dual-extractor system maintains control of the case from the moment it leaves the magazine and upon firing, pulls the fired case from the chamber and lifts them to push them into an ejection chute above the barrel, where they exit. The Bullpup configuration and tilting-block mechanism allow the 18″ model to be only 26.1″ long, or as much as 14″ shorter in overall length than its competitors with equal barrel lengths. Furthermore, the stock and mechanism cross-section is similar to a conventional rifle, in stark contrast to existing Bullpup rifles. The RFB is also the safest Bullpup ever developed because the breech is separated from the shooters face by two layers of 1.6 mm steel. In the highly unlikely event of a case rupture, gas expansion is directed downwards through the magazine well to protect the shooters head and face.


    Calibers: Target Carbine
    Weight unloaded (no magazine): 11.3 lbs 8.1 lbs
    Length: 40″ 26″
    Barrel length: 32″ 18″
    Magazine: 10 or 20 FAL
    Practical range: 1200m 600m

    The RFB is a short-stroke gas piston operated semi-automatic rifle in 7.62 mm NATO caliber. It accepts standard metric FAL type magazines which work “drop free” and do not need to be tilted in. One 20 round magazine is included*. Barrels on current models are 18″ long, with a chrome lined bore and chamber. The muzzle is threaded 5/8×24 TPI and comes equipped with our A2-style Flash Hider*. Longer barrel lengths of 24″, 26″ and 32″ will be available in the future. All controls are fully ambidextrous; the reciprocating operating handle can be switched to either side. The trigger mechanism is second to no other Bullpup ever built and better than nearly all commercial semi-auto rifles. The safety disconnects the trigger and blocks the hammer action. A Mil-Spec Picatinny rail is attached rigidly to the barrel. No open sights are provided, allowing the user to select from the very best new optics and sight systems available. The RFB comes with a two point sling that can be easily configured to suit the user’s preference. Available accessories include a free-floating, four-sided Picatinny forend, bipod mounts, a removable bayonet lug for use with NATO style bayonets including our own Folding Bayonet, and many more.

    Description MSRP
    RFB $ 1880.00

  • Begginers First Aid

    Evaluate the situation. Are there things that might put you at risk of harm? Are you or the victim threatened by fire, toxic smoke or gasses, an unstable building, live electrical wires or other dangerous scenario? Do not rush into a situation where you could end up as a victim yourself.

    If approaching the victim will endanger your life, seek professional help immediately; they have higher levels of training and know how to handle these situations.

    Remember your A,B,Cs. The A,B,Cs of first aid refer to the three critical things you need to look for.

    • Airway – Does the person have an unobstructed airway?
    • Breathing – Is the person breathing?
    • Circulation – Does the person show a pulse at major pulse points (wrist, carotid artery, groin)?

    Avoid moving the victim. Avoid moving the victim unless they are in immediate danger. Moving a victim will often make injuries worse, especially in the case of spinal cord injuries.

    Call Emergency Services. Call for help or tell someone else (a specific person, if possible) to call for help as soon as possible. If you are the only person on the scene, try to establish breathing before calling for help, and do not leave the victim alone for an extensive amount of time.

    Determine responsiveness. If a person is unconscious, try to rouse them by gently shaking and speaking to them.

    If the person remains unresponsive, carefully roll them onto their back and open his airway.

    • Keep head and neck aligned.
    • Carefully roll them onto their back while holding his head.
    • Open the airway by lifting the chin.

    Look, listen and feel for signs of breathing. Look for the victim’s chest to rise and fall, listen for sounds of breathing (place your ear near the nose and mouth, and feel for breath on your cheek.

    • If the victim is not breathing,Clear airway and begin Rescue Breaths.
    • If the victim is breathing, but unconscious, roll them onto their side, keeping the head and neck aligned with the body. This will help drain the mouth and prevent the tongue or vomit from blocking the airway.

    Check the victim’s circulation. Look at the victim’s color and check their pulse (the carotid artery is a good option; it is located on either side of the neck, below the jawbone). If the victim does not have a pulse, start CPR.

    Treat bleeding, shock, and other problems as needed. After you have established that the victim is breathing and has a pulse, your next priority should be to control any bleeding. Particularly in the case of trauma, you should take steps to control or prevent shock.

    Stay with the victim until help arrives. Try to be a calming presence for the victim until assistance can arrive.

  • The KSG (Kel-Tec Shotgun) is Kel-Tec CNC’s first entry into the shotgun market.

    The KSG (Kel-Tec Shotgun) is Kel-Tec CNC’s first entry into the shotgun market.

    The size, shape, and design is similar to the currently available Kel-Tec RFB rifle, but the KSG ejects downward, instead of forward. The KSG weighs 6.9 lbs. and is as compact as legally possible with a 26.1” overall length and an 18.5” cylinder bore barrel. Even with this compact size, the internal dual tube magazines hold an impressive 12 rounds of 12 gauge 3” rounds in total (6 per tube). It can also reliably shoot shells as short as 1 3/4″ up to the 3″.



    Caliber 12 gauge 3”
    Barrel length 18.5″
    Total capacity 6+6+1
    Weight empty 6.9lbs
    Weight loaded 8.5lbs
    Length 26.1″
    Height 7″


    This simple and reliable pump action feeds from either the left or right tube. The feed side is manually selected by a lever located behind the trigger guard.


    The pump includes an under picatinny rail for the mounting of a forward grip, a light, or a laser. The included top picatinny sight rail will accept many types of optics or iron sights. Forward and rear sling loops are built in, and a basic sling is included. The soft rubber butt pad helps to tame recoil.


    The KSG receiver is made from hardened steel and includes the magazine tubes which have been welded in place. The grip and stock assembly is made of glass reinforced nylon (Zytel) and is easily disassembled by pushing out 2 pins, which store in 2 holes in the grip when removed. The barrel and pump assembly is removed by loosening the 2 front magazine tube nuts with a coin and sliding the assembly forward.



    Description Estimated MSRP
    KSG $ 880.00

  • Smith & Wesson Introduces New SD9 VE™ and SD40 VE™ Pistols

    Smith & Wesson Introduces New SD9 VE™ and SD40 VE™ Pistols
    New Self Defense Handguns Offer High-Grade Features at Affordable Price Point
    SPRINGFIELD, Mass. (June 1, 2012) – Smith & Wesson Corp. today announced that it has unveiled two new handgun models designed to assist with self protection and home defense needs. Chambered in 9mm and .40 S&W, the new Smith & Wesson SD9 VE™ and SD40 VE™ semi-automatic pistols combine value enhanced features with top-grade performance into a reliable option for both home and personal protection uses.
    “At Smith & Wesson we continue to introduce new and innovative products that provide today’s consumer with diverse and dependable firearms that address their multiple needs,” said Mario Pasantes, Smith & Wesson’s Senior Vice President of Marketing and Global Professional Sales. “With the introduction of the new SD9 VE and SD40 VE value enhanced pistols, we have taken the best features of the Sigma and SD series pistols and evolved them into a new generation of firearms that meet our customers’ requirement in terms of both functionality and price.”
    At the foundation of each SD VE pistol is a lightweight polymer frame, designed to excel in the areas of comfort and durability. On the stainless steel slide, the SD VE pistol features a distinctive two-tone finish along with aggressive front and rear slide serrations for improved firearm handling. Among the key features found on the Smith & Wesson SD9 VE and SD40 VE is the Self Defense Trigger (SDT™). Providing a smooth, consistent trigger pull, the SDT design helps to enhance accuracy while providing users with increased confidence. To further aid in accuracy and resilience, the SD VE is standard with a white-dot front sight and a white two-dot rear sight.
    For optimal comfort and control, the SD VE pistol has been fitted with an 18° natural point of aim, ergonomic grip with aggressive front and back strap texturing. The Smith & Wesson SD9 VE and SD40 VE have both been built with a textured finger locator, which is placed directly above the trigger guard on the left and right side of the frame. Underneath the barrel, a universal Picatinny-style equipment rail is standard for optional tactical lights, lasers and other popular accessories.
    The SD9 VE is available with either a 16+1 or 10+1 round capacity while the SD40 VE is standard with either a 14+1 or 10+1 magazine capacity. Both pistols have an unloaded weight of 22.7 ounces and a slender width of 1.29 inches. With a 4-inch barrel and an overall length of 7.2 inches, both models are fully compatible for personal protection or home defense measures. Each pistol comes with two magazines and the Smith & Wesson lifetime service policy.
    The SD9 VE and SD40 VE have a suggested retail price of $379 and are currently shipping.
    For more information on the SD VE pistols, please visit www.smith-wesson.com/SDseries.
    A number of high-quality accessories are available for the SD series. A partial list of accessory manufacturers follows. Please contact these or any of your favorites to inquire about availability: LaserMax®, LaserLyte®, Crimson Trace®, Galco® Holsters, Fobus Holsters & Pouches, DeSantis Gunhide® and BLACKHAWK!®.

  • The Remington SPS Tactical

    Caliber: .223 Rem (5.56x45mm NATO)
    .308 Win (7.62x51mm NATO)
    Barrel: Carbon Steel
    Barrel Length: 20″ (508mm)
    Twist: RH 1:12″ (.308)
    Empty Weight (no optics): 7.5 lbs (3.40 kg)
    Overall Length: 40.0″ (1.016m)
    Magazine: 4 round internal box
    Trigger: Remington X-Mark Pro™, adjustable for weight
    Stock: Hogue Overmolded with Aluminum Pillars
    Finish: Matte Bluing
    Price: ~$550

    The 700 SPS Tactical is setup to be a compact tactical rifle that is easy to transport and usable in any weather condition. To achieve this at a reasonable price, a SPS trademark, Remington used a shortened varmint barrel (20″) and an off the shelf Hogue Over-molded stock. These stocks have been around for a while and are fairly popular with shooters. The design is fairly typical for a rifle stock with a flatter type forend that remains fairly wide to provide a stable shooting platform off of sandbags or other shooting rests. I would prefer a pistol grip that had a bit more girth to it and was a bit more vertical, but it works okay as is.

    The thing that sets the Hogue stock apart is the soft rubber compound that the exterior is made of. It provides and excellent gripping surface in all weather conditions and is warm to the touch. Another interesting point about it is that it is very quite if you bang it against something. While the audible quietness is perhaps not a major factor to consider, it is still a benefit. The rubber is molded over a ribbed plastic frame like many injection molded stocks, and like those stocks, this stock is not as stiff as I would like a stock to be. In fact, while using a bipod, the forend flexes enough to touch the barrel slightly. While it did not seem to affect the accuracy of this particular rifle, it is still a precision rifle no-no that should be avoided. This stock has the two aluminum pillars which work well enough for an economy rifle like this, obviously glass or aluminum bedding would be preferred, but that would raise the price considerably. The forend also only has a single stud without a specific 2nd stud dedicated for a bipod, making another minor inconvience.

    The Barrel is free floating (until you use a bipod or a sandbag way up front on the forend) and is 20″ in length. It is the standard Remington heavy barrel contour and does have a nice 11 degree target crown. The barrel channel gap on this example was nice and even the whole length, again, unless using it off a bipod causing it to touch at the very end. The action is a typical Remington 700 SPS action with the fairly rough matte finish over the entire barreled action. Unfortunately the SPS Tactical comes with the new Remington X Mark Pro trigger which I am not a big fan of, though I will admit it had a fairly clean 4 pound break. I just do not like the trigger shoe itself, the color, or the adjustment of it… perhaps I’m just a traditionalist. The trigger was kept at its factory setting for all testing here.

    Even taking the flaws into consideration, the overall package is not bad for the money. The 20″ barrel is just about right and the rifle balances well and is fairly light and easy to carry in the field. For the money it appears to be a solid package though obviously not perfect, but we still needed to check the performance before making any final conclusions.

    The Remington 700P LTR with its fluted 20″ barrel has a reputation of being the most accurate of the mass produced tactical rifles that Remington makes and many people believe that the 18-20″ barrel lengths are ideal for the best accuracy with a .308, though you do give up some velocity. With the trigger left breaking at 4 lbs we expected some decent performance, though the stock sometimes touching the barrel did concern us. We used a Swift 6-18x scope for this evaluation and the groups were fired at 100 yards on about 16x. We used some cheaper 150gr 308 range ammo for the initial sight in, and things were not looking good with groups about 3″. But then we changed to federal gold medal match 168gr ammo, things got better… MUCH better.

    Here is a picture of three consecutive groups fired with the gold medal match ammo.

    Now, they were not ALL that good primarily because of shooter error, but when you do three in a row like that, it is a pretty good indication of accuracy. All groups were fired at 100 yards using a sandbag upfront and sandsock at the rear. The three groups above measured .381″, .362″ and .313″ respectively. The overall average for all groups fired with Federal GMM was .466″. So, this particular rifle, even with the front of the rubber stock touching the barrel slightly, is clearly sub .5 MOA rifle out of the box. That is quite impressive for a $550 lower end tactical rifle. We did not try any of the other match grade ammunition, but it certainly likes the Federal. The trigger on this one didn’t perform too bad at the range, though the recoil, as should be expected with the lighter weight and shorter barrel, was more brisk with more pronounced muzzleflip than a typical 700P or other longer and heavier .308 tactical rifles.

    As is not totally uncommon with Remington rifles, the mounting holes were a bit off center and it took a decent amount of left scope adjustments to zero. There was still enough for wind situations, but it is still a sign of a bit of sloppy manufacturing.

    In conclusion, it may be wise to mention the direct attack on FN-PBR sales that this rifle will have. The FN PBR is about $300-$400 more expensive, uses the same stock but with the full aluminum bedding block, the action isn’t as smooth, and the one I tested was not as accurate. But, the FN-PBR does have a detachable magazine, claw extractor, wider gap in the barrel channel for no stock touching, that full aluminum bedding block, and it is available in some other barrel lengths. But to be honest, FN is probably not very happy about this little rifle, especially if Remington decides to keep it in the lineup after this year. Don’t get me wrong, the SPS-Tactical has some legit weaknesses, but at the price, and if they all perform like this one, it will be hard to chose a PBR, or possibly even some other lower end rifles. Of course, you do give up some velocity with the shorter barrel, and some of the workmanship isn’t the best, and some minor things like only a single stud up front keep it from being a truly great rifle, but the rifle does shoot very well and is completely functional in its intended role and deserves some consideration.


  • Federal Pink Top Shotshells Support Breast Cancer Research

    Shooters can now blast clay pigeons for a cause. Federal Ammunition’s special edition Top Gun Target loads support finding a cure for breast cancer. These distinctive pink hulls are an effective hunting and shooting practice option or a solid load for shooting competitions. A portion of the sales of this product will go directly to the search for a cure. The new 12-gauge 2-3/4-inch #8 shotshells deliver consistent performance for all types of clay target shooting.

    For further information contact: Federal Premium Ammunition, Dept. SGN, 900 Ehlen Dr., Anoka, MN 55303 or www.federalpremium.com

    Read more: http://www.shotgunnews.com/2011/05/25/federal-pink-top-shotshells-support-breast-cancer-research/#ixzz1yTO8ra14

  • Romaine Lettuce

    Romaine or cos lettuce (Lactuca sativa L. var. longifolia) is a variety of lettuce which grows in a tall head of sturdy leaves with a firm rib down the center. Unlike most lettuces, it is tolerant of heat. The name cos lettuce derives from the Greek island of Kos, where it originated. The day of 22 Germinal in the French Republican Calendar is dedicated to this lettuce.


    The thick ribs, especially on the older outer leaves, should have a milky fluid which gives the romaine the typically fine-bitter herb taste. Romaine is the usual lettuce used in Caesar salad. Romaine lettuce is commonly used in Middle Eastern cuisine.

    Ritual use

    Romaine lettuce may be used in the Passover Seder as a type of bitter herb, to symbolise the bitterness inflicted by the Egyptians while the Israelites were slaves in Egypt.


    Romaine lettuce
    Nutritional value per 100 g (3.5 oz)
    Energy 72 kJ (17 kcal)
    Carbohydrates 3.3 g
    - Dietary fibre 2.1 g
    Fat 0.3 g
    Protein 1.2 g
    Water 95 g
    Vitamin A equiv. 290 μg (36%)
    Folate (vit. B9) 136 μg (34%)
    Vitamin C 24 mg (29%)
    Calcium 33 mg (3%)
    Iron 0.97 mg (7%)
    Phosphorus 30 mg (4%)
    Potassium 247 mg (5%)
    Percentages are relative to
    US recommendations for adults.
    Source: USDA Nutrient Database

    As with other dark leafy greens, the antioxidants contained within romaine lettuce are believed to help prevent cancer.[5] According to the 2011 edition of the Old Farmer’s Almanac, the chlorophyll pigment in dark leafy greens, such as Romaine lettuce, may reduce levels of colon and liver cancer carcinogens.

  • Basic Permaculture

    Permaculture is a branch of ecological design and ecological engineering which develops sustainable human settlements and self-maintained agricultural systems modeled from naturalecosystems.

    The core tenets of permaculture are:

    • Care of the Earth: Provision for all life systems to continue and multiply.
    • Care of People: Provision for people to access those resources necessary for their existence.
    • Setting Limits to Population and Consumption: By governing our own needs, we can set resources aside to further the above principles.

    Permaculture design emphasizes patterns of landscape, function, and species assemblies. It asks the question, “Where does this element go? How can it be placed for the maximum benefit of the system?” To answer this question, the central concept of permaculture is maximizing useful connections between components and synergy of the final design. The focus of permaculture, therefore, is not on each separate element, but rather on the relationships created among elements by the way they are placed together; the whole becoming greater than the sum of its parts. Permaculture design therefore seeks to minimize waste, human labor, and energy input by building systems with maximal benefits between design elements to achieve a high level of synergy. Permaculture designs evolve over time by taking into account these relationships and elements and can become extremely complex systems that produce a high density of food and materials with minimal input.

    Common permaculture practices include the use of agroforestry, natural building, rainwater harvesting, and sheet mulching.


    The 12 permaculture design principles

    Permaculturists generally regard the following as its 12 design principles:

    1. Observe and interact: By taking time to engage with nature we can design solutions that suit our particular situation.
    2. Catch and store energy: By developing systems that collect resources at peak abundance, we can use them in times of need.
    3. Obtain a yield: Ensure that you are getting truly useful rewards as part of the work that you are doing.
    4. Apply self-regulation and accept feedback: We need to discourage inappropriate activity to ensure that systems can continue to function well.
    5. Use and value renewable resources and services: Make the best use of nature’s abundance to reduce our consumptive behavior and dependence on non-renewable resources.
    6. Produce no waste: By valuing and making use of all the resources that are available to us, nothing goes to waste.
    7. Design from patterns to details: By stepping back, we can observe patterns in nature and society. These can form the backbone of our designs, with the details filled in as we go.
    8. Integrate rather than segregate: By putting the right things in the right place, relationships develop between those things and they work together to support each other.
    9. Use small and slow solutions: Small and slow systems are easier to maintain than big ones, making better use of local resources and producing more sustainable outcomes.
    10. Use and value diversity: Diversity reduces vulnerability to a variety of threats and takes advantage of the unique nature of the environment in which it resides.
    11. Use edges and value the marginal: The interface between things is where the most interesting events take place. These are often the most valuable, diverse and productive elements in the system.
    12. Creatively use and respond to change: We can have a positive impact on inevitable change by carefully observing, and then intervening at the right time.


    Permaculture design focuses heavily upon natural patterns. All things, even the wind, the waves and the Earth moving around the Sun, form patterns. In pattern application, permaculture designers are encouraged to develop an awareness of the patterns that exist in nature (and how these function) and how patterns can be utilized to satisfy the specific design needs of a specific site. “The application of pattern on a design site involves the designer recognizing the shape and potential to fit these patterns or combinations of patterns comfortably onto the landscape”.


    Layers are one of the tools used to design functional ecosystems that are both sustainable and of direct benefit to man. A mature ecosystem has a huge number of relationships between its component parts: trees, understory, ground cover, soil, fungi, insects, and animals. Because plants grow to different heights, a diverse community of life is able to grow in a relatively small space, as each layer is stacked one on top of another. There are generally seven recognized layers in a food forest, although some practitioners also include fungi as an eighth layer:

    1. The canopy: the tallest trees in the system. Large trees dominate but do not saturate the area, i.e. there exist patches barren of trees.
    2. Low tree layer: dwarf fruit trees, citrus trees and other short trees
    3. Shrubs: a diverse layer that includes most berry bushes
    4. Herbaceous: may be annuals, biennials or perennials; most annuals will fit into this layer
    5. Rhizosphere: root crops including potatoes and other edible tubers
    6. Soil surface: cover crops to retain soil and lessen erosion, along with green manures to add nutrients and organic matter to the soil, especially nitrogen
    7. Vertical layer: climbers or vines, such as runner beans and lima beans (vine varieties)


    A guild is any group of species that exploit the same resources, often in related ways. Guilds are groups of plants, animals, insects, etc. that work well together. Some plants may be grown for food production, some to attract beneficial insects, and others to repel harmful insects. When grouped together these plants form a guild.

    Edge effect

    The edge effect in ecology is the effect of the juxtaposition or placing side by side of contrasting environments on an ecosystem. Permaculturists argue that, where vastly differing systems meet, there is an intense area of productivity and useful connections. An example of this is the coast; where the land and the sea meet there is a particularly rich area that meets a disproportionate percentage of human and animal needs. So this idea is played out in permacultural designs by using spirals in the herb garden or creating ponds that have wavy undulating shorelines rather than a simple circle or oval (thereby increasing the amount of edge for a given area). Edges between woodland and open areas have been claimed to be the most productive.


    Zones are a way of organizing design elements in a human environment on the basis of the frequency of human use and plant or animal needs. Frequently manipulated or harvested elements of the design are located close to the house in zones 1 and 2. Less frequently used or manipulated elements, and elements that benefit from isolation (such as wild species) are farther away. Zones is about positioning things appropriately. Zones are numbered from 0 to 5:

    Zone 0
    The house, or home center. Here permaculture principles would be applied in terms of aiming to reduce energy and water needs, harnessing natural resources such as sunlight, and generally creating a harmonious, sustainable environment in which to live and work. Zone 0 is an informal designation, which is not specifically defined in Mollison’s book.
    Zone 1
    The zone nearest to the house, the location for those elements in the system that require frequent attention, or that need to be visited often, such as salad crops, herb plants, soft fruit like strawberries or raspberries, greenhouse and cold frames, propagation area, worm compost bin for kitchen waste, etc. Raised beds are often used in zone 1 in urban areas.
    Zone 2
    This area is used for siting perennial plants that require less frequent maintenance, such as occasional weed control or pruning, including currant bushes and orchards. This would also be a good place for beehives, larger scalecomposting bins, and so on.
    Zone 3
    The area where maincrops are grown, both for domestic use and for trade purposes. After establishment, care and maintenance required are fairly minimal (provided mulches and similar things are used), such as watering or weed control maybe once a week.
    Zone 4
    A semi-wild area. This zone is mainly used for forage and collecting wild food as well as timber production.
    Zone 5
    A wild area. There is no human intervention in zone 5 apart from the observation of natural ecosystems and cycles.


    Animals are often incorporated into site design. Other projects avoid the use of domesticated animals altogether.

    Common practices


    Agroforestry is an integrated approach of using the interactive benefits from combining trees and shrubs with crops and/or livestock. It combines agricultural and forestry technologies to create more diverse, productive, profitable, healthy and sustainable land-use systems. In agroforestry systems, trees or shrubs are intentionally used within agricultural systems, or non-timber forest products are cultured in forest settings. Forest gardening is a form of agroforestry that is particularly popular with permaculturists.

    Natural building

    A natural building involves a range of building systems and materials that place major emphasis on sustainability. Ways of achieving sustainability through natural building focus on durability and the use of minimally processed, plentiful or renewable resources, as well as those that, while recycled or salvaged, produce healthy living environments and maintain indoor air quality. Natural building tends to rely on human labor, more than technology.

    The basis of natural building is the need to lessen the environmental impact of buildings and other supporting systems, without sacrificing comfort, health or aesthetics. To be more sustainable, natural building uses primarily abundantly available, renewable, reused or recycled materials. In addition to relying on natural building materials, the emphasis on the architectural design is heightened. The orientation of a building, the utilization of local climate and site conditions, the emphasis on natural ventilation through design, fundamentally lessen operational costs and positively impact the environmental. Building compactly and minimizing the ecological footprint is common, as are on-site handling of energy acquisition, on-site water capture, alternate sewage treatment and water reuse.

    Rainwater harvesting

    Rainwater harvesting is the accumulating and storing of rainwater for reuse before it reaches the aquifer. It has been used to provide drinking water, water for livestock, water for irrigation, as well as other typical uses. Rainwater collected from the roofs of houses and local institutions can make an important contribution to the availability of drinking water. It can supplement the subsoil water level and increase urban greenery. Water collected from the ground, sometimes from areas which are especially prepared for this purpose, is called stormwater harvesting.

    Greywater is wastewater generated from domestic activities such as laundry, dishwashing, and bathing, which can be recycled on-site for uses such as landscape irrigation and constructed wetlands. This wastewater contains no feces or urine. Greywater differs from water from the toilets which is designated sewage or blackwater, to indicate it contains human waste, but it is suitable as a source of water for toilets.

    Sheet mulching

    In agriculture and gardening, mulch is a protective cover placed over the soil. Any material or combination can be used as mulch, stones, leaves, plastic, cardboard etc., though in Permaculture mulches of organic material are the most common because they perform more functions. These include: absorbing rainfall, reducing evaporation, providing nutrients, increasing organic matter in the soil, feeding and creating habitat for soil organisms, suppressing weed growth and seed germination, moderating diurnal temperature swings, protecting against frost, and reducing erosion. Sheet mulching is an agricultural no-dig gardening technique that attempts to mimic natural processes occurring within forests, sheet mulching mimics the leaf cover that is found on forest floors. When deployed properly and in combination with other Permacultural principles, it can generate healthy, productive and low maintenance ecosystems.

    Sheet mulch serves as a “nutrient bank,” storing the nutrients contained in organic matter and slowly making these nutrients available to plants. It also improves the soil by attracting and feeding earthworms, and adding humus. Earthworms “till” the soil, and their worm castings are among the best fertilizers and soil conditioners. Sheet mulching can be used to reduce or eliminate undesirable plants by starving them of light, and may be more advantageous than using herbicide or other methods of control.


    The term permaculture (as a systematic method) was first coined by Australians Bill Mollison and David Holmgren during the 1970s. The word “permaculture” originally referred to “permanent agriculture” but was expanded to stand also for “permanent culture,” as it was seen that social aspects were integral to a truly sustainable system. Inspired by Fukuoka natural farming philosophy, Mollison has described permaculture as “a philosophy of working with, rather than against nature; of protracted and thoughtful observation rather than premature and thoughtless labor; and of looking at plants and animals in all their functions, rather than treating any area as a single project system.



    Permaculture draws from several disciplines including organic farming, agroforestry, integrated farming, sustainable development, and applied ecology. “The primary agenda of the movement has been to assist people to become more self reliant through the design and development of productive and sustainable gardens and farms. The design principles which are the conceptual foundation of permaculture were derived from the science of systems ecology and study of pre-industrial examples of sustainable land use.

    In 1929, Joseph Russell Smith took up the term as the subtitle for Tree Crops: A Permanent Agriculture, a book in which he summed up his long experience experimenting with fruits and nuts as crops for human food and animal feed. Smith saw the world as an inter-related whole and suggested mixed systems of trees and crops underneath. The definition of permanent agriculture as that which can be sustained indefinitely was supported by Australian P. A. Yeomansin his 1973 book Water for Every Farm. Yeoman introduced an observation-based approach to land use in Australia in the 1940s; and the keyline design as a way of managing the supply and distribution of water in the 1950s.

    Stewart Brand’s works were an early influence noted by Holmgren.[20] Other early influences include Ruth Stout and Esther Deans, who pioneered ”no-dig gardening methods”, and Masanobu Fukuoka who, in the late 1930s in Japan, began advocating no-till orchards, gardens and natural philosophy.

    The first recorded modern application of permaculture concepts as a systematic method was possibly by Austrian farmer Sepp Holzer in the 1960s.

    Mollison and Holmgren

    In the mid-1970s, Bill Mollison and David Holmgren started developing ideas about stable agricultural systems on the southern Australian island state of Tasmania. This was a result of the danger of the rapidly growing use of industrial-agricultural methods. In their view, highly dependent on non renewable resources, these methods were additionally poisoning land and water, reducing biodiversity, and removing billions of tons of topsoil from previously fertile landscapes. A design approach called “permaculture” was their response and was first made public with the publication of their book Permaculture One in 1978.

    By the early 1980s, the concept had broadened from agricultural systems design towards sustainable human habitats. After Permaculture One, Mollison further refined and developed the ideas by designing hundreds of permaculture sites and writing more detailed books, notably Permaculture: A Designers Manual. Mollison lectured in over 80 countries and taught his two-week Permaculture Design Course (PDC) to many hundreds of students.

    In 1991, a four-part television documentary by ABC productions called “The Global Gardener” showed permaculture applied to a range of worldwide situations, bringing the concept to a much broader public. In 2012, the UMass Permaculture Initiative won the White House “Champions of Change” sustainability contest, which declared that “they demonstrate how permaculture can feed a growing population in an environmentally sustainable and socially responsible manner”.

    Trademark and copyright issues

    There has been contention over who if anyone controls the legal rights to the word “Permaculture”, meaning is it trademarked or copyrighted, and if so, who holds the legal rights to the use of the word. For a long time Bill Mollison claimed to have copyrighted the word permaculture, and his books reflected that on the copyright page, saying “The contents of this book and the word PERMACULTURE are copyright.” These statements were largely accepted at face-value within the permaculture community. However, copyright law does not protect names, ideas, concepts, systems, or methods of doing something; it only protects the expression or the description of an idea, not the idea itself. Eventually Mollison acknowledged that he was mistaken and that no copyright protection existed for the word “permaculture”.

    In 2000 Mollison’s US based Permaculture Institute sought a service mark (a form of trademark) for the word permaculture when used in educational services such as conducting classes, seminars, or workshops. The service mark would have allowed Mollison and his two Permaculture Institutes (one in the US and one in Australia) to set enforceable guidelines as to how permaculture could be taught and who could teach it, particularly with relation to the PDC. The service mark failed and was abandoned in 2001. Also in 2001 Mollison applied for trademarks in Australia for the terms “Permaculture Design Course” and “Permaculture Design”. These applications were both withdrawn in 2003. In 2009 he sought a trademark for “Permaculture: A Designers’ Manual” and “Introduction to Permaculture”, the names of two of his books. These applications were withdrawn in 2011. There has never been a trademark for the word Permaculture in Australia.


    General criticisms

    In his books “Sustainable Freshwater Aquaculture” and “Farming in Ponds and Dams”, Nick Romanowski expresses the view that the presentation of aquaculture in Bill Mollison’s books is unrealistic and misleading. Linda Chalker-Scott claims that Toby Hemenway’s views regarding invasive species in the permaculture book “Gaia’s Garden” are pseudo-science.


    Greg Williams also argue that woods can not be more highly productive than farmland, as states that net productivity declines when forests mature. Proponents of permaculture respond that this is true only if one compares data from between woodland forest and climax vegetation, but not when comparing farmland vegetation with woodland forest. For example,  generally indicates that a forest’s productivity rises after its establishment only until it reaches the woodland state (67% tree cover), before declining until full maturity.

    Scientific data

    In 2001, Greg Williams argue it is often difficult to find scientifically tested data that validate certain claims promoted by permaculture advocates, and conclude that they often neglect the scientific approach. In 2011, Owen Hablutzel argued that “permaculture has yet to gain a large amount of specific mainstream scientific acceptance,” and that “the sensitiveness to being perceived and accepted on scientific terms is motivated in part by a desire for Permaculture to expand and become increasingly relevant.” In late 2011, Bec-Hellouin permaculture farm engaged in a research program in partnership with INRA and AgroParisTech to collect scientific data.